Very thought-provoking, good read. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in anything beyond the end of his or her own nose... My other recommendation is "Can We Live 150 Years?" by M. Tombak. You can see some excerpts of this book at www.starthealthylife.com

Jared Diamond's "Collapse - How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" is a good discription of how people's choices result in the success or failure of their societies. Unfortunately the collapses he describes are of small societies on the fringes of the habitable world. He doesn't investigate the really big collapses, like the Roman Empire, which were mostly caused by external invasions. And his view is somewhat US-centric. For instance, he doesn't notice that Montana's big problem is not that it is short of resources, but that it borders on three Texas-sized Canadian provinces with vastly greater resources. Montana prospered when it had the biggest copper deposits on the planet but now all it has left is big holes in the ground, and everything else it produces is much more plentiful and cheaper north of the border. His last example, California is a really good example of really bad choices. California did well when it was relatively empty, but now it is populated to European densities. He considers the problem to be overpopulation, but the density is fine if you adopt a European lifestyle - live in small townhouses or apartments, take public transportation to work, and high-speed rail to nearby cities. However, it is too high if people want to drive big SUV's enormous distances down the freeways. The problem is that, like the Greenland Norse, Californians would rather die than change.
As I was taking Calgary's wind-powered electric train home from work today, I considered the choices we have made. While we here north of Montana have vastly greater oil reserves than are left in the US, we find it more efficient to sell them to the US than use them ourselves. That way the air pollution goes to California and the wealth goes to Canada. As Diamond says, it's an opportunity to learn from other people's mistakes.

This is the work of a pulitzer prize winning academic who has written an accessible book for the intellectually curious that combines aspects of history and science to invent a mechansim for cultrual reflection. It is not definitive, but it is an excellent introduction to a new level of collective self-discovery all societies can bennefit from. It is an especially valuable exploration of vital considerations of viability for a society like ours in which corporations and special interests play a pivotal role in shaping our economy, lifestyle, and political life --not to mention informing our ability to respond and adapt to change. People predisposed to reflection on the cause for our present day realities, who are willing to ponder potential perils in our collective choices, or are optimistic that the past can shed insight into our futures in the hopes of advancing the human condition, will enjoy this author's works.

This is not a work for conservative ideologues who are threatened by the idea that we can shape our future to improve upon the status quo. Perhaps due to the implications for personal aspirations or out of blind esteem for wealth, such folks clearly find the idea that our society should reflect on its future in this manner to be threatening and will tend to react viscerally. Ironically, it is exactly when such a state of mind takes hold among the collective that the choice to fail is made . Buy it, borrow it, but read it.

This is the work of a pulitzer prize winning academic who has written an accessible book for the intellectually curious that combines aspects of history and science to invent a mechansim for cultrual reflection. It is not definitive, but it is an excellent introduction to a new level of collective self-discovery all societies can bennefit from. It is an especially valuable exploration of vital considerations of viability for a society like ours in which corporations and special interests play a pivotal role in shaping our economy, lifestyle, and political life --not to mention informing our ability to respond and adapt to change. People predisposed to reflection on the cause for our present day realities, who are willing to ponder potential perils in our collective choices, or are optimistic that the past can shed insight into our futures in the hopes of advancing the human condition, will enjoy this author's works.

This is not a work for conservative ideologues who are threatened by the idea that we can shape our future to improve upon the status quo. Perhaps due to the implications for personal aspirations or out of blind esteem for wealth, such folks clearly find the idea that our society should reflect on its future in this manner to be threatening and will tend to react viscerally. Ironically, it is exactly when such a state of mind takes hold among the collective that the choice to fail is made . Buy it, borrow it, but read it.

Guns, Germs, and Steel discussed the rise of civilization and now Collapse speaks too soon of its possible demise.

Jared Diamond is a brilliant thinker and writer. He paints, with broad strokes, "the big picture". Both books are lengthy. In Collapse, his second volume of the set, he draws his story to a close by listing the problems we now face.

That's correct, after reading a thousand pages we are left with a list of problems and a glimmer of hope.

Perhaps the next book will focus on solutions. We want answers!

Guns, Germs, and Steel discussed the rise of civilization and now Collapse speaks too soon of its possible demise.

Jared Diamond is a brilliant thinker and writer. He paints, with broad strokes, "the big picture". Both books are lengthy. In Collapse, his second volume of the set, he draws his story to a close by listing the problems we now face.

That's correct, after reading a thousand pages we are left with a list of problems and a glimmer of hope.

Perhaps the next book will focus on solutions. We want answers!

Guns, Germs, and Steel discussed the rise of civilization and now Collapse speaks too soon of its possible demise.

Jared Diamond is a brilliant thinker and writer. He paints, with broad strokes, "the big picture". Both books are lengthy. In Collapse, his second volume of the set, he draws his story to a close by listing the problems we now face.

That's correct, after reading a thousand pages we are left with a list of problems and a glimmer of hope.

Perhaps the next book will focus on solutions. We want answers!

I really wanted to love this book, because I was bowled over by Diamond's previous tour-de-force "Guns, Germs, and Steel." This book is also overflowing with fascinating information about the vast movements of human geography and culture, but it's less focused and conclusive. Diamond's analyses here about societies that collapsed in the past don't quite translate completely into a foolproof understanding of either the problems or potential solutions facing modern society. The major issue is the sequencing of the book into separate parts that are not integrated very well. This could have been a lean-and-mean powerhouse if it had stuck with examining those old civilizations, but trouble arises with Diamond's attempted connections to the modern world.

Part 1 introduces the book with some revealing investigation into the environmental and economic problems currently facing Montana, as a prelude. The true meat of the book is Part 2, in which Diamond analyzes, usually with remarkable depth, ancient societies that really collapsed, as a result of environmental problems brought on by pressures in political organization, economics, and population growth. This works spectacularly for Diamond's reporting on Easter Island and the Anasazi of the American Southwest. But unfortunately, his history of the Mayans neglects a lot of freely available documentation that would detract from his thesis concerning environmental degradation, while his coverage of the Norse colony in Greenland is rife with speculation on what really happened to its inhabitants. He also has inconsistent opinions on the alteration of nature, especially with large scale fishing and clearing of land for agriculture, implying that these were environmentally successful in places like medieval Japan and modern New Guinea, but destructive for civilizations elsewhere.

This book runs into real trouble in Parts 3 and 4, in which Diamond extends his thesis on environmental collapse toward modern societies. His examinations of the deeper issues behind the Rwanda genocide and the unsustainable European political/economic system in Australia are insightful and fascinating. However, once again Diamond's stances show inconsistency, especially toward physical and economic globalization - which sometimes nurture civilizations but may destroy others; and toward the "exporting" of deforestation and pollution from powerful to weaker nations - especially in regards to China preserving its own forests (which leads to deforestation elsewhere) but accepting incoming electronic garbage and pollution. Diamond almost totally lost me in Chapter 15, an examination of pro-environmental business practices that smacks of apologetics and an attempted deflection of potential criticism toward the book from business interests. Fortunately the final chapter argues convincingly that the environmental issues faced by those old collapsed civilizations are definitely worth worrying about now, and Diamond has substantial respect for all the political realities involved. However, the connections between ancient and modern aren't as cut-and-dried as Diamond implies, resulting in a reliance on speculation that saps some of the power from this otherwise fascinating book. [~doomsdayer520~]

I really wanted to love this book, because I was bowled over by Diamond's previous tour-de-force "Guns, Germs, and Steel." This book is also overflowing with fascinating information about the vast movements of human geography and culture, but it's less focused and conclusive. Diamond's analyses here about societies that collapsed in the past don't quite translate completely into a foolproof understanding of either the problems or potential solutions facing modern society. The major issue is the sequencing of the book into separate parts that are not integrated very well. This could have been a lean-and-mean powerhouse if it had stuck with examining those old civilizations, but trouble arises with Diamond's attempted connections to the modern world.

Part 1 introduces the book with some revealing investigation into the environmental and economic problems currently facing Montana, as a prelude. The true meat of the book is Part 2, in which Diamond analyzes, usually with remarkable depth, ancient societies that really collapsed, as a result of environmental problems brought on by pressures in political organization, economics, and population growth. This works spectacularly for Diamond's reporting on Easter Island and the Anasazi of the American Southwest. But unfortunately, his history of the Mayans neglects a lot of freely available documentation that would detract from his thesis concerning environmental degradation, while his coverage of the Norse colony in Greenland is rife with speculation on what really happened to its inhabitants. He also has inconsistent opinions on the alteration of nature, especially with large scale fishing and clearing of land for agriculture, implying that these were environmentally successful in places like medieval Japan and modern New Guinea, but destructive for civilizations elsewhere.

This book runs into real trouble in Parts 3 and 4, in which Diamond extends his thesis on environmental collapse toward modern societies. His examinations of the deeper issues behind the Rwanda genocide and the unsustainable European political/economic system in Australia are insightful and fascinating. However, once again Diamond's stances show inconsistency, especially toward physical and economic globalization - which sometimes nurture civilizations but may destroy others; and toward the "exporting" of deforestation and pollution from powerful to weaker nations - especially in regards to China preserving its own forests (which leads to deforestation elsewhere) but accepting incoming electronic garbage and pollution. Diamond almost totally lost me in Chapter 15, an examination of pro-environmental business practices that smacks of apologetics and an attempted deflection of potential criticism toward the book from business interests. Fortunately the final chapter argues convincingly that the environmental issues faced by those old collapsed civilizations are definitely worth worrying about now, and Diamond has substantial respect for all the political realities involved. However, the connections between ancient and modern aren't as cut-and-dried as Diamond implies, resulting in a reliance on speculation that saps some of the power from this otherwise fascinating book. [~doomsdayer520~]

I really wanted to love this book, because I was bowled over by Diamond's previous tour-de-force "Guns, Germs, and Steel." This book is also overflowing with fascinating information about the vast movements of human geography and culture, but it's less focused and conclusive. Diamond's analyses here about societies that collapsed in the past don't quite translate completely into a foolproof understanding of either the problems or potential solutions facing modern society. The major issue is the sequencing of the book into separate parts that are not integrated very well. This could have been a lean-and-mean powerhouse if it had stuck with examining those old civilizations, but trouble arises with Diamond's attempted connections to the modern world.

Part 1 introduces the book with some revealing investigation into the environmental and economic problems currently facing Montana, as a prelude. The true meat of the book is Part 2, in which Diamond analyzes, usually with remarkable depth, ancient societies that really collapsed, as a result of environmental problems brought on by pressures in political organization, economics, and population growth. This works spectacularly for Diamond's reporting on Easter Island and the Anasazi of the American Southwest. But unfortunately, his history of the Mayans neglects a lot of freely available documentation that would detract from his thesis concerning environmental degradation, while his coverage of the Norse colony in Greenland is rife with speculation on what really happened to its inhabitants. He also has inconsistent opinions on the alteration of nature, especially with large scale fishing and clearing of land for agriculture, implying that these were environmentally successful in places like medieval Japan and modern New Guinea, but destructive for civilizations elsewhere.

This book runs into real trouble in Parts 3 and 4, in which Diamond extends his thesis on environmental collapse toward modern societies. His examinations of the deeper issues behind the Rwanda genocide and the unsustainable European political/economic system in Australia are insightful and fascinating. However, once again Diamond's stances show inconsistency, especially toward physical and economic globalization - which sometimes nurture civilizations but may destroy others; and toward the "exporting" of deforestation and pollution from powerful to weaker nations - especially in regards to China preserving its own forests (which leads to deforestation elsewhere) but accepting incoming electronic garbage and pollution. Diamond almost totally lost me in Chapter 15, an examination of pro-environmental business practices that smacks of apologetics and an attempted deflection of potential criticism toward the book from business interests. Fortunately the final chapter argues convincingly that the environmental issues faced by those old collapsed civilizations are definitely worth worrying about now, and Diamond has substantial respect for all the political realities involved. However, the connections between ancient and modern aren't as cut-and-dried as Diamond implies, resulting in a reliance on speculation that saps some of the power from this otherwise fascinating book. [~doomsdayer520~]

This is a book that if not written in America would be a lot shorter. That is it raises a number of environmental problems and suggests that there are solutions to them. However some of the solutions require some governmental or collective activity which is anathema to most Americans. For that reason the book has a long discussion of past environmental crises which have led to the collapse of human societies or ongoing serious problems. It would appear that the writer lectures at university and the structure of the chapters suggest that they are a collection of lectures.

The societies that have collapsed are Easter Island, the Greenland Norse, Henderson Island, some native Americans and the Maya. The pattern is reasonably similar. Human communities have move to heavily forested areas which have varying climate patterns. The removal of the forest has initially led to productive agriculture but over time years of low rainfall have reduced productivity lead to soil erosion and environmental collapse. In the case of Easter and Henderson Island large communities have been reduced to shadows of their former selves with cannibalism and social conflict. The Maya continued to exist as a group but the communities which built the vast cities in the Yutucan have drifted away as their agriculture has collapsed.

Diamond indicates that despite the tragedies there are stories in which collapse has been averted. The Japanese after the unification in the 17th Century faced the possibility of an outcome like that of Haiti. Increasing population numbers leading to de-forestation and environmental collapse. The Japanese government however moved in the 17th and 18th Century to plant forest and limit the growth of agriculture. Fishing was encouraged instead of the use of domestic animals. A more modern example is that of the Dominican Republic which again under a dictatorial government was able to retain its forests because of the commitment of a dictator who otherwise could hardly have been said to be enlightened.

In his last chapter Diamond goes on to say that the worst cases of environmental collapse are occurring in countries which have weak corrupt or collapsing government. He uses the case of Afghanistan, Haiti and Somalia to back this up.

Now the suggestion that government is good for something is a hard pill for a lot of Americans to follow. If this book was released in the United Kingdom or Canada then it could have consisted of some chapters talking about environmental problems and suggesting some solutions that most would find commonplace. However as the book is American it is necessary to show how problems occur and the market, marvellous instrument that it is might not correct. Diamond goes on to outline how the market can lead to poor outcomes. Thus with the mining of minerals profitably is low and it is easier for a company to pay out profits over time and then go bankrupt rather than pay clean up costs. With the forest industry in South East Asia it is cheaper to log areas and not to create a sustainable operation as all that is necessary is to pay some bribes and harvest cost rather than rent land and pay the cost of new plantations. He uses the historical examples to show that environmental damage is not something, which will necessarily go away, or self correct quickly.

He focuses his opening chapter on Montana in America to talk generally about a range of issues. Pollution due to extraction mining potential loss of habitat due to logging and so on.

The book is readable and all true. However it is not really about the collapse of society it is more discussion of the environment using some old examples of collapse to suggest that this is serious.

In Collapse, Jared Diamond has successfully examined the thousands of year of human history, by evaluating many of the great civilizations that went extinct due to their inability to recognize the limits of their resources and the strength of the forces of nature. The failures of those ancient and modern societies especially in Africa and Asia, as well the Easter Island and Greenland stemmed from the fact that they were compromised by their environment through disasters that were either natural or induced.

In this well-researched book, Diamond wrote of eco-disasters and the depletion of environmental resources through unsustainable measures as the principal causes of the demise of those societies. Not only that, he mentioned some societies that that have solved their ecological problems and succeeded. Nevertheless, the overriding point Diamond made is that in this age of globalization, societies must take collective actions to avoid the collapse of the world's highly interdependent global economy, since it is fast approaching its unsustainable level. This book is a wake up call for the world to develop sustainable sources of energy that does not compromise the environment. Hydrogen cars, solar energy etc should be things for the immediate tomorrow.

The lesson is clear. Those societies that can adapt their ways of life to be in line with the potentials of their environment last while those societies that abuse their resources ultimate commit suicide, and so fail. Now, for the first time in human history, modern technology, global interdependence and international cooperation have provided us with the means and opportunity to judiciously use our resource and prevent their depletion not only from a small scale, but from a global scale as well. It is only by harnessing this new knowledge to sustain our planet, that we shall avoid the fate of self-destruction, like several great societies before us.

Also recommended: DISCIPLES OF FORTUNE,OVERSHOOT

This is a book that if not written in America would be a lot shorter. That is it raises a number of environmental problems and suggests that there are solutions to them. However some of the solutions require some governmental or collective activity which is anathema to most Americans. For that reason the book has a long discussion of past environmental crises which have led to the collapse of human societies or ongoing serious problems. It would appear that the writer lectures at university and the structure of the chapters suggest that they are a collection of lectures.

The societies that have collapsed are Easter Island, the Greenland Norse, Henderson Island, some native Americans and the Maya. The pattern is reasonably similar. Human communities have move to heavily forested areas which have varying climate patterns. The removal of the forest has initially led to productive agriculture but over time years of low rainfall have reduced productivity lead to soil erosion and environmental collapse. In the case of Easter and Henderson Island large communities have been reduced to shadows of their former selves with cannibalism and social conflict. The Maya continued to exist as a group but the communities which built the vast cities in the Yutucan have drifted away as their agriculture has collapsed.

Diamond indicates that despite the tragedies there are stories in which collapse has been averted. The Japanese after the unification in the 17th Century faced the possibility of an outcome like that of Haiti. Increasing population numbers leading to de-forestation and environmental collapse. The Japanese government however moved in the 17th and 18th Century to plant forest and limit the growth of agriculture. Fishing was encouraged instead of the use of domestic animals. A more modern example is that of the Dominican Republic which again under a dictatorial government was able to retain its forests because of the commitment of a dictator who otherwise could hardly have been said to be enlightened.

In his last chapter Diamond goes on to say that the worst cases of environmental collapse are occurring in countries which have weak corrupt or collapsing government. He uses the case of Afghanistan, Haiti and Somalia to back this up.

Now the suggestion that government is good for something is a hard pill for a lot of Americans to follow. If this book was released in the United Kingdom or Canada then it could have consisted of some chapters talking about environmental problems and suggesting some solutions that most would find commonplace. However as the book is American it is necessary to show how problems occur and the market, marvellous instrument that it is might not correct. Diamond goes on to outline how the market can lead to poor outcomes. Thus with the mining of minerals profitably is low and it is easier for a company to pay out profits over time and then go bankrupt rather than pay clean up costs. With the forest industry in South East Asia it is cheaper to log areas and not to create a sustainable operation as all that is necessary is to pay some bribes and harvest cost rather than rent land and pay the cost of new plantations. He uses the historical examples to show that environmental damage is not something, which will necessarily go away, or self correct quickly.

He focuses his opening chapter on Montana in America to talk generally about a range of issues. Pollution due to extraction mining potential loss of habitat due to logging and so on.

The book is readable and all true. However it is not really about the collapse of society it is more discussion of the environment using some old examples of collapse to suggest that this is serious.

In Collapse, Jared Diamond has successfully examined the thousands of year of human history, by evaluating many of the great civilizations that went extinct due to their inability to recognize the limits of their resources and the strength of the forces of nature. The failures of those ancient and modern societies especially in Africa and Asia, as well the Easter Island and Greenland stemmed from the fact that they were compromised by their environment through disasters that were either natural or induced.

In this well-researched book, Diamond wrote of eco-disasters and the depletion of environmental resources through unsustainable measures as the principal causes of the demise of those societies. Not only that, he mentioned some societies that that have solved their ecological problems and succeeded. Nevertheless, the overriding point Diamond made is that in this age of globalization, societies must take collective actions to avoid the collapse of the world's highly interdependent global economy, since it is fast approaching its unsustainable level. This book is a wake up call for the world to develop sustainable sources of energy that does not compromise the environment. Hydrogen cars, solar energy etc should be things for the immediate tomorrow.

The lesson is clear. Those societies that can adapt their ways of life to be in line with the potentials of their environment last while those societies that abuse their resources ultimate commit suicide, and so fail. Now, for the first time in human history, modern technology, global interdependence and international cooperation have provided us with the means and opportunity to judiciously use our resource and prevent their depletion not only from a small scale, but from a global scale as well. It is only by harnessing this new knowledge to sustain our planet, that we shall avoid the fate of self-destruction, like several great societies before us.

Also recommended: DISCIPLES OF FORTUNE,OVERSHOOT

Very thought-provoking, good read. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in anything beyond the end of his or her own nose... My other recommendation is "Can We Live 150 Years?" by M. Tombak. You can see some excerpts of this book at www.starthealthylife.com